Appetite For Distortion with Brando

Appetite For Distortion with Brando Guns N' Roses-themed interview podcast. Hosted by a radio veteran. 500+ eps. Via the iHeartRadio app, Q1043.com, YouTube n' wherever you get your podcasts.

Not affiliated with GN’R.

 : Rock band Winterburn became the first all-Arab band to open GN'R when they did so in Bahrain, May 2025. Hear singer N...
07/20/2025

: Rock band Winterburn became the first all-Arab band to open GN'R when they did so in Bahrain, May 2025.

Hear singer Nas Mestarihi share just part of the compelling story of how that happened and his passion for Guns N' Roses' music.

Rock band Winterburn became the first all-Arab band to open GN'R when they did so in Bahrain, May 2025. Hear singer Nas Mestarihi share just part of the comp...

 : July 20th, 1991 - Guns N' Roses rocked the Shoreline Amphitheatre for the 2nd of 2 nights in Mountain View, Californi...
07/20/2025

: July 20th, 1991 - Guns N' Roses rocked the Shoreline Amphitheatre for the 2nd of 2 nights in Mountain View, California. Here's an unfriendly review via the San Francisco Examiner...

Guns N' Roses without violence

Feisty metal band plays Shoreline, nobody gets hurt

By Barry Walters
EXAMINER POP MUSIC CRITIC

MOUNTAIN VIEW - It felt like any other mainstream rock concert Friday night at the Shoreline Amphitheatre. There were guys dressed like their heroes, girls dressed like groupies, even a few parents dressed like parents. No significant fights broke out, no one destroyed any equipment, chairs were not ripped up or smashed, fans did not overtake security forces and the musicians never leapt into the crowd to smash personal property; It hardly seemed like a Guns Ν' Roses show.

America’s best-selling hard rock band owes much of its popularity to its gift for stirring up controversy. Members of the L.A'.-based group have made headlines by re-cording lyrics that have been widely criticized as homophobic and racist, mumbling obscenities at the American Music Awards, allegedly bashing a neighbor with a bottle and, most recently, touching off an enormous two-hour riot when singer Axl Rose leapt into an audience to nab a fan with a video camera.

Bad manners and money

This ability to cause a commotion turns a regular concert into news, even when nothing happens. By doing and saying things ordinary folk would reject as ill-mannered in daily life, Guns N’ Roses generates curiosity that has translated into millions of dollars. Even in this recession-plagued season — by far the worst summer for concert attendance in years — Guns Ν’ Roses managed to sell out both nights at the Shoreline. The very real threat of violence did not stop fans from coming out to see what kind of egomaniacal mischief these self-appointed bad boys of rock would stir up next

The truest thing Rose said came near the end of the 2 1/4-hour-long show: “I work to control my irrational behavior, but when I lose it, you bastards get off on it”

The crowd was unlike the kind of audience that shows up at hardcore metal concerts — the sort that lives and breathes the most extreme rock ’n’ roll possible. Most of the fans looked suburban, middle-class and unremarkable. For a major hard rock event there were a lot of short haircuts, acid-wash jeans, neon-bright jackets and sober expressions. Because the starting time had been pushed up to 7 p.m. (the opening act, Skid Row, actually took the stage at 7:35), the sun was still out.

Out of place in the sun

Sunlight does strange things to hard rock, a music with a thoroughly nocturnal sensibility. The fans that did come attired in the proper dress code — bandannas shaggy heads, motorcycle jackets, spray-on jeans, spiked everything — looked out of place under a California sun that turned the sky pink as it set. Without darkness and shadow, the mystery and menace of metal is lost. Skid Row had no stage lighting at all, only hair highlights. The group looked completely ridiculous flinging their substantial hair around in the absence of spotlights.

After Skid Row’s half-hour set, no alcohol was served. Fans ambled around the theater grounds stunned, as if they’d just lost their best friend.

Tension mounted as the break between bands went beyond 90 minutes. Bill Graham took the stage to ask the crowd to stay out of the aisles and off the chairs. Well-versed in public speaking, the promoter managed to finish on a positive pro-rock ’n’ roll note, clearly aware of the rebellious backlash a scolding phrase might trigger. The gist of his speech — go crazy, but stay in your place — was the very essence of corporate rock.

A skirt and vest

After several taped songs from Nine Inch Nails (an industrial modern rock band Rose has been championing lately), the headliners finally took the stage. Rose, recently voted by Rolling Stone readers and critics as rock’s worst-dressed man, was sporting a kilt, combat boots and what looked like a bulletproof vest. It was nice to see the man that once sang “Immigrants and f******, they make no sense to me” dolled up in what was essentially a Scottish plaid skirt.

Following a couple of fast numbers, Rose introduced “a little present for Paul McCartney.” This was the Wings hit “Live and Let Die,” which will be included on one of two new Guns N’ Roses albums that should finally be released at the end of August. Transformed into a metal showcase for guitarist Slash, this rendition of the McCartney oldie was fierce and frantic, even if the local heroes in Jellyfish have been doing this song live for almost a year now.

Rose introduced several original tracks from the upcoming “Use Your Illusion” albums. One was a rocker called “Night Train,” another was a tune sung by rhythm guitarist Izzy Stradlin, who Rose said has “a lifestyle of his own,” whatever that meant. Slash employed a voice-box device on his guitar in the Peter Frampton style of yore.

Bad vocal mix

It was times such as these when the audience looked bored. Although the performances were far more succinct than they were a couple of months ago at the War-field show (a public rehearsal for this full-scale tour), much of the new material was hard to fully appreciate, given the fact of the lousy vocal mix and that most of the lyrics couldn’t be understood.

However, the concert did sustain the kind of suspense most big money-makers have rehearsed out of their shows. The group performed without a set list and the unpredictability worked wonders. Bits of old hits served as intros to the band’s familiar material. The riff from Jimi Hendrix’s “Voodoo Chile” introduced a dramatic version of “Civil War.” After Nino Rota’s famous theme from “The Godfather,” Rose sang a bit of Grand Funk Railroad’s “Bad Time” before launching into “Sweet Child o’ Mine.” A fragment of Alice Cooper’s “Only Women Bleed” began Bob Dylan’s “Knockin’ On Heaven’s Door.”

There were other surprises, not all of them good. Rose sat at the piano for “November Rain,” a power ballad that resembled any number of recent Cher hits. Here and many times throughout the set, the band struggled to reach beyond head-banging rock to attain something more grand. Although the musicians — Slash in particular — proved themselves on both new and old material, Rose failed when he tried to drop his helium-pitched whine and actually sing. When he wasn’t rushing offstage during Slash’s surprisingly melodic solos, he moved with the commanding grace of a true star. Maybe someday he’ll learn how to sing like one.

Happy 78th Birthday to astrophysicist, Queen guitarist, and Chinese Democracy contributor...Sir Brian May!(Freddie Mercu...
07/19/2025

Happy 78th Birthday to astrophysicist, Queen guitarist, and Chinese Democracy contributor...Sir Brian May!

(Freddie Mercury Tribute concert photo by Mick Hutson/Redferns)

 : July 19th, 1988 - Guns N' Roses open for Aerosmith at the Richfield Coliseum in Ohio. Before playing "Move To The Cit...
07/19/2025

: July 19th, 1988 - Guns N' Roses open for Aerosmith at the Richfield Coliseum in Ohio. Before playing "Move To The City," Axl says they will release that song on an upcoming EP (GN'R Lies would come out in November).

Setlist:
It's So Easy
Move to the City
Out ta Get Me
Rocket Queen
Mr. Brownstone
Slash Guitar Solo (followed by blues jam)
Welcome to the Jungle
Sweet Child O' Mine

(Photo by Paul Natkin/Getty Images)

You'd never get caught at a Buckethead show. Just sayin'.
07/19/2025

You'd never get caught at a Buckethead show. Just sayin'.

 : Chip Z'Nuff is very close with Steven Adler. What did the former Guns N' Roses drummer confide in him about reconcili...
07/19/2025

: Chip Z'Nuff is very close with Steven Adler. What did the former Guns N' Roses drummer confide in him about reconciling with Axl Rose, finally reuniting with GN'R in 2016, and if it will ever happen again?

Plus, Chip talks about his other friendships within the Guns camp and where does Enuff Z'Nuff stand with their own reconciliation?

Chip Z'nuff is very close with Steven Adler. What did the former Guns N' Roses drummer confide in him about reconciling with Axl Rose, finally reuniting with...

Chris Martin be like…
07/18/2025

Chris Martin be like…

Nas told one of the more incredible stories I've heard on the podcast.Going from homeless the year before his band Winte...
07/18/2025

Nas told one of the more incredible stories I've heard on the podcast.

Going from homeless the year before his band Winterburn opened for Guns N' Roses in Bahrain to Duff McKagan watching his set, complimenting his playing. That's half his story.

New episodes on YT and wherever you get your podcasts.

 : July 18th, 1992 - Guns N' Roses and Metallica bring their epic tour to Giants Stadium in New Jersey.Report via The Ph...
07/18/2025

: July 18th, 1992 - Guns N' Roses and Metallica bring their epic tour to Giants Stadium in New Jersey.

Report via The Philadelphia Inquirer...

All day, all night, metal fans (53,000 plus)

Cooking with metal, the stadium tailgaters

Guests of honor Guns Ν’Roses didn’t show till midnight, but no matter. The parties went on strong, and long, and loud, at the Giants Stadium concert marathon.

By Lou Ferrara
INQUIRER CORRESPONDENT

EAST RUTHERFORD. N J — James Dusenbery stroked his gray-streaked beard, placing his other hand on the shoulder of his 9-year-old son, Jesse. They stood at the entrance to Giants Stadium in the Meadowlands; behind them streaks of smoke rose from charcoal grills, occasional sparks signaled a launched firework, speakers blared competing music, empty beer bottles clinked as they rolled on the pavement. All over, rallying cries emanated from people anticipating An Event.

With the New York City skyline in a hazy silhouette in the background, the Dusenberys eagerly stood in one of the lines at Giants Stadium, along with all the other people who went to see Saturday’s main event: a nearly nine-hour heavy-metal concert marathon featuring the likes of Guns N’ Roses and Metallica.

“This is really calm and cool compared to the football games you can go to here,” the 39-year-old school maintenance worker from New Milford, N.J., said as the massive beer and barbecue tailgate stretching over acres of blacktop parking lots went on behind him.

"I grew up on stuff like this, so I don’t see what’s really wrong with it for my kids now.”

The two stood a few feet from Dusenbery’s wife, Barbara, and their 13-year-old daughter,

Annie. They all waited patiently about 20 minutes before being allowed to enter the stadium at 4:30 p.m., two hours before the spectacle.

All four clad in black T-shirts, the Dusenberys entered after getting through security guards who patted them down with a light police frisking.

Guns N’ Roses headlined the double bill that included a two-hour set from the hardcore band Metallica and an abbreviated show by heavy-funk band Faith No More. For the Dusenberys and the more than 53,000 other fans, Saturday night would be a long one.

Guns N’ Roses did not hit the stage until midnight, wrapping up just after 2 a m. The show was the second on the six-man heavy-metal band’s 25-city North American tour — they head to the Silverdome in Pontiac,

Mich., tomorrow — and the group went on just as late opening night in Washington’s RFK Stadium on Friday.

“These are once-in-a-lifetime shows they’re doing,” said Steve Colavito, who drove about 90 minutes to the show from his North Jersey home in Old Bridge. “When they go on late like that, it really doesn’t mean that much when you consider what you're getting."

Guns N’ Roses will not be playing Philadelphia this leg of the tour — the group played the Spectrum last year in June — but will return to Giants Stadium July 29 for a second show. Though Saturday's show was sold out, upper-level seats remain for the second show.

Colavito, stripped down to cutoff jeans and a pair of Nikes, partied with hundreds of others outside in a thick humidity before the show, lie blared heavy metal out of two huge speakers he had carried in the trunk of his white Buick.

“We're pumping about 150 watts per speaker with this baby," yelled the Middles*x County Board of Elections worker, as he popped open another Budweiser. "This kicks. A party like this, there’s nothing else like it."

Tony Morreira could not have agreed more. He is the Meadowlands’ scheduling officer, who had to deal with many of the concert’s problems that kept popping up. For him, the event was more like Guns N’ Roses n’ absolute chaos.

As he sat at his desk in a tunnel underneath the bleachers of screaming fans, the lines on his telephone lighted up; guards spread through the stadium were calling with everything from simple questions to possible problems. Morreira tried to help a man who came into his office to find friends in the crowd, but was unsuccessful. “You say your friends are somewhere in Row 20 but you don't have the exact location,” a puzzled Morreira said. "Every section in here has a Row 20. There’s no way we can find somebody like that.”

The man left and Morreira breathed a deep sigh, only to quickly turn his attention to the phones. There would be a steady run of loose ends to tie up before the night was over

Richard Ryan, assistant director of Meadowlands security, said that there had been no major incidents, but that about a dozen arrests had been made for minor violations such as possession of alcohol and ticket scalping. Scalpers in the parking lot hacked the $27.50 tickets for as much as $75, though some sold the seats at face value to get rid of them before show time.

“If tickets ran me a hundred bucks a pop, I’d go,” said Chris Adair, 20, a tailgater who looked around from the roof of his 1969 Chevrolet Ca-maro at the scene below.

At an adjoining stadium parking lot, a woman stood atop a white stretch limo and accepted money to do a little flashing. In minutes, a crowd of nearly 100 men had gathered, dollar bills and containers of beer in hand.

The metalfest tailgate started about 1:30 p.m. Tracy Cassara, 21, who rented a Dodge Caravan with six of her friends and made the trek up from Middles*x Township, scuffed her knee-high black boots along the beer bottle-ridden parking lot. "I’m not exactly a metalhead in the strict sense of the word,” the assistant graphic designer said, sipping on a wine cooler. "I just like coming to something like this and hearing the music as loud as it possibly can be."

For Huw Rose, the concert had much more meaning than music and partying. This was a chance to see his idol, Guns N’ Roses lead singer Axl Rose. Huw Rose, a University of Connecticut freshman, shaved most of his head except for certain parts of the back to form the name Axl.

Axl Rose was able to participate in the band’s tour despite an arrest earlier this month over an incident at a concert in St. Louis last year, when he jumped, allegedly swinging, into a crowd. He was angry because he had spotted someone taking pictures without permission. On Oct. 13, Rose will face four assault counts and a count of damage to property in St. Louis.

“Guns N’ Roses is such a different band, you never know what to expect," said Dara Singer, a telecommunications sales representative from Edison. “An event like this is incredible."

Singer, 23, sat with her friend Amy Suter on the trunk of Singer's Buick Century, sipping beers before the night’s show. As people began to file into the stadium, the two waited for a friend to finish changing the flat tire they got when entering the grounds.

Most days Suter, 23, is in front of a class of elementary school youngsters, putting them through their third-grade paces. Saturday at the tailgate, she was dressed in a T-shirt and shorts. She said she "got psyched up” for the head-banging night that lay ahead.

“Just because I teach in an elementary school doesn’t mean I can’t listen to this music,” Suter said, “you have to go out and cut loose sometimes. This seems to be a good place to do it."

 : July 18th, 1992 - via the Washington Post...FANS N'ROSES: A HEAVY METAL DIETBy Richard Harrington"I didn't get into t...
07/18/2025

: July 18th, 1992 - via the Washington Post...

FANS N'ROSES: A HEAVY METAL DIET

By Richard Harrington

"I didn't get into this to be a {expletive} role model."

Slash, the man casually resisting responsibility, is sitting in the bar at the Four Seasons, one of Washington's most expensive hotels, drinking steadily, double Jack Daniel's and Coke. On the little table in front of him sit two brown bags with more Jack Daniel's, bottled, waiting to be sent back to his room. One is a gift from a fan of his band, Guns N' Roses. The other is a token from the reporter, after a publicist suggested that this might loosen Slash's tongue.

The guitarist, hirsute in the manner of "The Addams Family's" Cousin It, laughs on hearing this, because it takes him back to a time when Guns N' Roses was staying in sleazy hotel rooms and Slash himself was living out of a duffel bag.

"I used to ask for vodka because I didn't have any money then," he says. Now, of course, Slash could drain every bottle in the mini-bar back in his room and not wince at the bill -- his band sold 15 million records last year and made an estimated $26 million. Which is another reason to stay at the Four Seasons, though the prestigious hotel chain only recently lifted its nationwide ban on allowing Guns N' Roses to stay at its properties -- something about the condition of the rooms after the band's stay a few years back.

"I don't think we're a lot worse than the average person," insists 26-year-old Slash (given name: Saul Hudson). "It's just because we're in the public eye that we get so much media attention. Granted, we've done our share of bad stuff, stuff that wouldn't be considered acceptable. ... But we're like a bunch of teenagers ... just touring and having a great time."

Until this week, Guns N' Roses also was a band on the run. Volatile lead singer Axl Rose (a k a Missouri's Most Wanted) was arrested on a fugitive warrant Sunday, charged with provoking a riot last July that caused 34 injuries and $300,000 in damage to a new stadium. He entered a not-guilty plea Tuesday, which allowed him and the rest of the band to embark on the 26-stadium tour that kicked off at RFK Stadium last night.

Although Rose was facing only misdemeanor charges, St. Louis prosecutor Dan Diemer had sworn to chase him down at every one of the group's stops until justice -- and Rose -- was served. But it's hardly surprising that Diemer had an Axl to grind: Something about Guns N' Roses provokes people -- adults and authority figures in particular -- to paroxysms of rage. Seven years into its history, Guns N' Roses has earned its reputation as rock's most exciting and excitable band.

Rising from poor Hollywood club rockers to wealthy stadium stars -- their "Appetite for Destruction" sold 18 million copies, most ever for a debut album -- they seemed to embrace a full menu of abusive and self-abusive courses, including the band's generally misogynist lyrics (and the occasional racist and homophobic one) and Rose's violent encounters with his now ex-wife, Erin Everly, and his generally boorish and debauched habits. Slash himself has danced with death, with a he**in habit resulting in a number of ODs (frighteningly portrayed in the song "Coma"), and he's also stumbled in drunken stupor, most publicly in an expletive-littered acceptance speech with bassist Duff McKagan on the 1990 American Music Awards telecast.

"Those experiences we've had that were negative -- we've learned from that," says Slash, taking another sip on his drink. He looks genially handsome, with a surprisingly boyish face despite the debauchery of recent years. Slash says he's mending his ways: He's three years clear from he**in and he even seems to be cutting back on alcohol, though he makes no apologies for his continued support of assorted distilleries around the world.

"There was a point where I used to drink a bottle of this a day," he says, pointing to the Jack Daniel's. "But that's not too conducive to being productive as far as I'm concerned. I've grown up a little bit in that sense. I may be out late at night and get toasted off my {expletive}, but for the most part I try and watch myself... .

"After a while, it gets boring, to be honest."

The guitarist, who always keeps handy a "Slash Survival Kit" (a carton of ci******es, a couple of bottles of Jack Daniel's), sees himself as a survivor.

"I'm lucky," Slash says. "I'm 26 years old, going on 27, and I went through my big drug thing -- he**in and coke -- comparatively early. And it was good for me to go through it and be able to look back on it now and go, 'This doesn't have anything to do with music whatsoever, it's just the lifestyle and the people I attract and people I hang out with because I'm on the street all the time.' Drugs and s*x go hand in hand when you're a rock-and-roll musician. Whereas if I were a violinist, it might be a little different."

(Then, of course, it would be drugs, s*x and violins.)

"I don't have any {expletive} regrets. I don't feel embarrassed by any of the stuff that we've gone through or any of the stuff that we've done or any of the girls I've {slept with}. ... It's a wacky lifestyle in general. The thing is to be proud and smart enough to get through it and still end up standing, and then you learn from it."

Though Rose remains everybody's favorite target, Slash has come in for his share of criticism recently -- notably from the Bureau of Alcohol, To***co and Fi****ms and parental groups for his endorsement deal with Black Death vodka, whose logo features a top-hatted skull (a look Slash himself has been known to flesh out).

"They look me in the eye and say, 'Don't you feel guilty?' Hey, I'm not a saint," he points out helpfully to those who would call him an irresponsible role model for youth.

Slash's own experience with role models is very different indeed.

He grew up in California's neo-hippie Laurel Canyon in the late '70s with Joni Mitchell as a next-door neighbor. His mother, Ola, was a costume designer for acts as disparate as the Pointer Sisters and David Bowie; his father, Anthony, was a graphic artist who designed album covers. As a result, musicians and industry folk were always around when young Saul was growing up.

"I saw these temperamental, wacked-out people who happened to be friends of the family," he recalls with a chuckle, "and it was par for the course as far as I was concerned. I grew up as a music fan, and as far as the lifestyle was concerned, I didn't realize it was all that different until I got into public elementary school and I realized I was waaay different from the kids there."

As for the excess associated with what he calls that "ridiculous lifestyle," he explains, "I was around it pretty much from day one and I had to make my own decisions about what was okay for me as far as drugs and alcohol and s*x. I expect kids to take care of it themselves."

Slash was a 19-year-old kid when he and his fellow band members evolved from poor aspirants to platinum knuckleheads, and no matter how many bands had paved the way, it was apparent that the Gunners were no more prepared for success and stardom than the average lottery winner. And rock-and-roll is a lottery.

Some things seem to have changed. In the past year, Rose has told of going to intensive therapy to resolve childhood traumas. The turbulence following the forced departure of he**in-addicted drummer Steven Adler and the sudden departure of rhythm guitarist-songwriter Izzy Stradlin seems to have settled. In between, the band embarked on what will be a two-year world tour and simultaneously released the "Use Your Illusion" albums (which opened at No. 1 and No. 2 on the Billboard charts -- a first and probably last).

Slash says he will soon be marrying a model-actress named Renee, his companion for the last three years.

"It's a stretch of the imagination for me to get married in the first place," he admits sheepishly. "I've been the most intense womanizer for so long -- I like women! I finally had to weigh them out -- stay with this girl or go out with all these girls? So I'm getting married and, honestly, I feel good about it."

Is Guns N' Roses losing its appetite for self-destruction? Will therapy still Rose's wild ways?

"When Axl and I first met is when we had the biggest problems," Slash reports. "But he's opened up so much now and that's made me a lot more sensitive with Axl. ... We communicate great and I've been having a ball with this whole thing. We trust each other more than anybody else and I feel really close to him.

"No one can kick our {expletive} -- that's how tight our bond is."

As is that between Guns N' Roses and its fans.

"We play to as many as 100,000 people on any given night," says Slash. "Do you know how that feels? The feeling between us and the crowd is so simple and innocent, such a gut feeling. All the other crap that goes on around us is a thorn in our side, and a small price to pay for being good and successful at what we do. It's only between us and our fans that this happens -- the rest is basically garbage."

Photo via Getty Images

Coldplay versus Guns N' Roses' concert experience. IYKYK 🫣
07/18/2025

Coldplay versus Guns N' Roses' concert experience.

IYKYK 🫣

Sweet Spreadsheet O' Mine 👨‍💼👩‍💼
07/17/2025

Sweet Spreadsheet O' Mine

👨‍💼👩‍💼

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Welcome to the Podcast

“Brando was hands down my favorite interviewer.” - Roberta Freeman, vocalist Use Your Illusion “I always enjoy connecting to those who avoid the obvious pedestrian cliche rockisms and who will converse with intelligence...kudos. That makes for a worthwhile broadcast.“ - Alan Niven, former GNR manager ------- Appetite for Distortion is a Guns N' Roses-themed podcast hosted by a radio veteran. Any topic is up for discussion as long as it falls under the 6-Degrees of GNR (Kevin) Bacon... Check it out on the iHeartRadio App and wherever you get your podcasts. Past guests include: Alice Cooper, Matt Sorum, Gilby Clarke, Dizzy Reed, Richard Fortus, Frank Ferrer, Dave Kushner, Henry Rollins, Dave Mustaine, David Coverdale, Joe Elliot, Steve Stevens, Susan Holmes McKagan, Mark Tremonti, Scott Ian, Charlie Benante, Carla Harvey, Eddie Trunk, Paolo Gregoletto & Corey Beaulieu (Trivium), Don Jamieson and Jim Florentine (That Metal Show), Brain (Primus / Guns N’ Roses), Tommy Stinson, Steve Gorman (Black Crowes), Alex Grossi (Quiet Riot), London Hudson (Slash’s son), Alan Niven (former GNR manager), Gary Beers (INXS), Mike Squires and Jeff Rouse (Duff McKagan’s Loaded), Todd Kerns (Slash ft. Myles Kennedy & the Conspirators), Ernie C (Bodycount), Richie Faulker (Judas Priest), Christopher Thorn (Blind Melon), Josh Todd (Buckcherry), Pauly Shore, Tom Green, Jim Breuer, Brian Posehn, CM Punk, Sheila E, Roberta Freeman, Teddy Zig Zag, Tom Keifer, AND MORE!! Not affiliated with the band Guns N' Roses. Current theme song created by Mike Squires.