Outside The Tank Podcast

08/27/2024

As a leader...what are you "chasing?"

08/24/2024

We filled the room up yesterday, getting the great Aflac AZ, "Team 48" all together. We ended the afternoon of training and recognition with an incredibly important talk by the great, Tom Healy. Tom taught us how our decision maker's buying journey has changed. We outlined Google's recent "ZMOT" study and then brought up a few of our best account openers, Taylor, Kaitlin and Haddie, to share what they do to nurture prospects in their pipeline. What a phenomenal day!

08/24/2024

It's great to see great VB veterans like Nick Vigill re-joining the ranks of Aflac Arizona in a Coordinator role. I want to congratulate Nick, and thank Haddie Keenum and Alison Guidi for welcoming Nick to their great Scottsdale Blaze team!

08/23/2024

I awake this morning with great anticipation.

08/22/2024

I'm not happy to see this news of cancer rates growing, especially amongst younger workers. However, I am glad that we have the best product in the industry to help employers and employees manage the out of pocket costs.

Cancer rates in the workforce are a growing concern for employers, per an employee benefit survey released Tuesday.

08/21/2024

I think that businesspeople are most HAPPY (fulfilled) in their life when they are doing the WORK that they LOVE and that they know they're GREAT at. (And I think the opposite is true also)

08/10/2024

Look out. This leadership team is now engaged!

07/27/2024

I returned to a sales leadership position this week, after being OUT of the GAME for quite a few years.
Here's a very short list of items (4 things) that HIT me hardest--I learned or re-learned--as I immersed back into the role.

YOU DON'T FORGET WHAT YOU KNOW:
Although there's some 'rust,' on my frame, the principles that I know to be TRUE (and that I know WORK), came flooding back to me. Once you absorb BASIC sales leadership paradigms, they don’t magically disappear. They are there (inside your head) forever. They become part of your DNA.

I'M OLDER, BUT PERHAPS A BIT WISER: (More reflective)
Because I've taken a few more trips around the sun than most, I SEE things differently--PERCEIVE things more CLEARLY and more accurately. As a result, I'm able to make good decisions quickly, and this also allows me to attach the proper EMOTIONS to scenarios that may have previously pi**ed me off or caused me to ACT OUT in an unproductive manner.

EVERYTHING'S DIFFERENT, EXCEPT THE NATURE OF PEOPLE:
There are so many things that have changed in regard to technology, services, strategies, methods, and the way markets respond. However, the NATURE of people--the way they think, react, etc., has NOT changed. Salespeople and sales managers are the same 'predictable animals' they were, 10, 20 and even 40 years ago. LOL! This fact/realization humored me the most upon my return this week as I observed this.

'READY' PEOPLE WILL RESPOND POSITIVELY TO VALUE:
One of our primary "jobs" as a sales leader is to be of extreme VALUE to the team of people we lead. If we can't (or don't) provide value in CRITICAL areas of development, growth, etc., your organizational results will suffer. If you DO focus on providing VALUE in the right areas, the team and metrics will flourish. In kind, the 'READY' people on your team will respond immediately to value--be ATTRACTED to it. Conversely, a salesperson or manager on your team that isn't ready--perhaps holding onto flawed paradigms--won't immediately embrace what's next. This week I observed many READY people responding positively to the actions and initiatives we began to undertake. A good thing.

Sales and sales leadership are fascinating topics to me--more like a total PASSION. So I study this area constantly--read and listen to everything I can get my hands on--analyze my OWN every move.

I'm sure I will learn (or re-learn) a few more things over the coming weeks/months. But that's it for now. And it's a lot for even me to take in. 😎

07/19/2024

(And you don’t have to be a golfer to GET this)
Tiger is struggling big time at the British Open. And he’s struggled at EVERY other previous major this year, either finishing DEAD LAST (Masters), or missing the cut. (U.S. Open + (PGA)

And the thing is, he doesn’t seem that far off!

He’s actually hitting the ball fairly well. His chipping and putting isn’t horrible. He’s simply making SMALL mental and physical mistakes that have cost him significant ground.

And Tiger will tell reporters, “I’m close.” He will say things like, “I probably need to play more.”

And the lesson for us lies inside of those TELLING statements.

You see, in golf, (or in any sport) you can’t just SHOW UP occasionally (only 4 times in an entire year) and expect to win. Not even if you're Tiger Woods. Now, I’m quite aware that Tiger’s body may not allow him to play a full schedule…I get that…and I feel so bad for him...but that’s beside the point.

The point and LESSON here is…
…you can’t just OCCASIONALLY show up in sales and expect to WIN either.

It just doesn’t work that way. You MUST get your REPS in.

The #1 golfer in the world (Scottie Sheffler) plays most every week. He also GRINDS it out on the practice range before and after each round. Scottie OUT-WORKS everyone...OUT THINKS most of his competitors. Hence, he puts himself in a position to WIN every week!

We've seen many otherwise smart and talented people FAIL in sales and/or in management, simply because they didn’t DO THE WORK—get their ‘reps’ in. They aren't SHARP. They make mistakes...they forget to do key things...and those errors cost them significant opportunities.

For whatever reason they don’t do the work outside the ropes (study, read, listen, role play, etc.) and then they don’t PLAY their way into TOP competitive shape—get out in the field, giving many presentations, being willing to get a little beat up.

When you're getting your 'reps' in, you don't make dumb mistakes. You're able to ADJUST and refine what you DO and SAY...you get BETTER and better. And you begin to WIN more and MORE.

So, if you're a professional salesperson or sales leader (or golfer...LOL), please ABSORB this important lesson.

You must do a TON of work on the 'practice range', and then you must also get inside the ropes and PLAY your way into TOP CONDITION in your chosen game if you expect to win.

That’s what I always did.

And it resulted in tremendous wealth...and not just for me, but also for everyone on our team. 😎

07/15/2024

A quick announcement.

I’m honored to have been selected as the Market Director for the great Aflac team here in the state of Arizona.

My former training company, mentumm, will continue to thrive under the steady leadership of my co-founder and good friend, Tom Healy.

As you may know, Beth and I have deep roots in the state of Arizona, and I also have very deep roots with Aflac. As I’ve considered how I’d ideally like to complete my long professional career, I couldn’t think of a better position, a better geographical area, or lastly—a better company to be with. Hence, this opportunity was hard to turn down when it was offered by Nate Harrison, Andy Glaub, and the executive team at Aflac.

So, starting this next week, I’ll begin writing the last chapter of ‘my life in sales.’ I’ll be doing work that’s very important to me, and I’ll be busy building a legacy team for Aflac over here in the great state of AZ.

This last chapter is going to be about creating WINS for everyone on our team while we have one heck of a good time together!

Stay tuned!

07/10/2024

It’s the "DNA" I leverage with regard to every sales or leadership coaching CONVERSATION that I facilitate.

“D” is for…DISCOVER
I ask great OPEN-ENDED questions (personal + professional), in order to get them relaxed and talking. I want to drive a relaxed initial discussion so I can start to uncover opportunities to FIX or improve KEY issues—things that may be holding them back, but I’ve got to get them to OPEN UP first.

“N” is for…NARROW
As the convo starts to flow, I LISTEN carefully and then begin to narrow the questions down a bit, asking more SPECIFIC questions about items I feel (or know) may be ‘IMPEDIMENTS’ for them. I’m looking for that TOP priority ‘issue’ we should WORK on together—ONE I know I can help them fix. (And you can’t FIX too many things at one time)

“A” is for…AGREE
As the conversation finds a CENTER—arriving at that ‘thing’ that’s keeping them from performing at a HIGHER level, I ask for their AGREEMENT that this is the (top) SPECIFIC issue that we need to work on together, and I ask their PERMISSION to help them do this specific work.

The rest of the coaching session is EASY…

We draft a PLAN to FIX the issue—to do the work.

We agree on a definite TIMELINE for the work to get DONE.

We calendar the NEXT coaching session.

Wham!

Great sales coaching isn’t that hard if you have the right DNA!

07/08/2024

Wham!

07/05/2024

I won’t keep you in suspense. The greatest mistake that some LEADERS make is that they…
…try to COACH all salespeople in the exact SAME way.

And that’s if they know how to “coach” properly at all…and it’s our observation that most DON’T know how to coach salespeople properly. Most sales managers confuse ‘performance management’ (reading from a report) with solid coaching…and that NEVER works to improve your salesperson’s skill sets and mindsets.

But, on the rare occasion that a sales leader tries to offer their salespeople real coaching, they make the fatal error of coaching ALL their salespeople in the exact SAME manner—which is frustrating for some of the salespeople and quite counter-productive for the leader.

LEGACY leaders know that they must SEGMENT their organization—place salespeople in logical categories FIRST—and then “coach” to where that person is AT.

The natural segments we’ve arrived at over the years are:
PULLERS, WORTHY Causes + NO-Shows. (You can make up your own names for these 3 pools of salespeople)

Here’s a few thoughts on each…

PULLERS:

-They are strong, self-sufficient for the most part—pulling their own weight.
-They don’t like MICRO-management. They want impediments REMOVED.
-You should simply ask them what they NEED from you to produce MORE.
-They don’t need (or want) A LOT of your TIME.

WORTHY Causes: (The middle)

-They’re doing the WORK, making incremental progress + improvements.
-They need HELP—solid coaching on key SKILL sets and mindsets.
-You need to get to the ROOT CAUSE of their issues + then FIX them.
-You’ll spend MOST of your time here, in the MIDDLE of your organization.
-If you move the NEEDLE a little in the middle, your metrics improve A LOT.

NO-Shows:

-These folks aren’t showing up—bottom line, NOT doing the work needed.
-They may be GHOSTING you completely—or ‘pretending’ to do the work.
-You CANNOT “coach” these people—it's a complete waste of time for you.
-You simply need to understand WHY they AREN’T doing the work.
-Then you need to CHALLENGE them IN or OUT of your organization/team.
-You don’t CHASE them. Little time is spent here.

So, you can’t even begin to “coach” effectively if you don’t first SEGMENT your organization—put them in a logical place, and then understand what TYPE of coaching deliverable they’ll respond well to, if you decide you’re going to coach them at all.

This philosophy and these methods MAXIMIZE your time and the effectiveness of your coaching, and helps your team move forward faster, and in a more SUSTAINABLE manner.

06/29/2024

My wife, Beth Buzzello, is so awesome. Whenever I go on the road to work with a sales or leadership team, she hides a little pink note in my backpack or luggage.

Below is the one I found in my bag yesterday as I arrived here in Tahoe for this leadership meeting.

For some reason, this note got my attention more than many of the others.
I think it's because I'm observing so many (so called) leaders that either DON'T have a VISION for their team, their vision isn't CLEAR, and/or they simply don't know how to articulate (SELL) the vision to their team.

So, I read this quote and the, "UNCERTAIN TRUMPET" line jumped out at me.

It paints a picture in my head...one of a manager who's waiving their arms, spouting off about something, blowing their "uncertain trumpet" while their team is looking on, unsure of what the STRATEGY really is, or how to actually EXECUTE on it, and finally...WHERE the heck it will take them.

So...thanks to Beth, I have a new favorite Joe B. phrase to steal and pass on.

06/24/2024

Kinda' knew this...

Three-quarters said going back to working five days a week in an office would damage their wellbeing

06/21/2024

I was cleaning up in my RV garage yesterday and I found this old, grainy photo in a dusty box.

This dude’s name (the guy standing) was, Craig Baxter. He was the very FIRST salesperson I ever hired and coached at Penn Life, in May of 1980.

He was my first ‘Guinea Pig,’ so I recall that I was simply hoping I didn’t completely RUIN Craig’s life. LOL! And the good news is…I didn’t. Craig did very well with Pennsylvania Life—he lasted quite a few years before moving on to another gig.

Since hiring Craig in 1980, I’ve hired and/or trained THOUSANDS and thousands of salespeople. But my front-talk (and philosophy) then—starting with Craig—is the very SAME methodology I’d use today.

These onboarding methods were passed on to me by my sales manager and mentor, Tom Smith. Tom influenced me to THINK in a certain way about my POSITIONING with new salespeople. Then he taught me how to ARTICULATE that viewpoint clearly to all my new hires.

And it goes like this…and it isn’t complex…and smart sales leaders and trainers ALL take these 5 STEPS in some similar fashion.

We all…

1. …CONNECT with our new salesperson and determine (exactly) what they want to ACCOMPLISH financially within our organization. In other words…we have a REVEALING conversation with them.

2. …EXPLAIN to them exactly what EFFORTS and activity levels will be required for them to meet and exceed those financial objectives. (We don’t sugar coat it)

3. …ASK them if they’re truly WILLING to pay that PRICE—and go the distance without offering BS excuses or complaints.

4. …TELL them what WE’RE willing to do FOR them and WITH them as their trainer, coach and mentor as long as they are putting in the work.

5. …CONFIRM that they understand the ‘DEAL,' make sure they know we'll continue to SUPPORT them and meet their energy level just as long as they’re still doing the WORK.

And if they continue to put in the hours and the WORK, everything usually works out well.

And if they don’t, we say/ask…

“Craig, when we shook hands and agreed to do this work together, you told me that you wanted to accomplish ____. And you confirmed that you were willing to _____.

But, you’ve obviously had a change of HEART.

Can you explain to me what’s CHANGED in your life since that honest conversation and our COMMITMENT to each other?”

That last question is GOLDEN.

After you ask it, just SHUT UP and listen.

Then you'll respond appropriately.
(Let them go – re-engage them – fix what needs to be fixed, etc.)

I know this stuff seems hard, but I swear, it isn’t.

06/17/2024

Leading COMMISSION-based salespeople is very, very, very different than managing a W2 salesperson.

We can argue the fine-points about this topic over a cup of coffee at some point, but if you think you're going to get HIGH performance out of a 1099 sales team (and SUSTAIN it long-term) without having built REAL and authentic relationships across the team, you are sadly mistaken.

And forget about building a LEGACY team. That'll NEVER happen without rock solid relationships with all KEY people on your team, and at EVERY level.

I was asked about this subject, TWICE at recent speaking and training engagements. "Hey, Joe B., how can I better 'motivate' my team--get more out of them?"

And my answer to this question has always been about the same...just about what we posted on the image below.

It's always going to be about the actual RELATIONSHIP you have with them.

And, oh...you CAN'T "motivate" them. That's a big MYTH. (Maybe even a LIE)

Motivation is an INTERNAL job. The best you can hope to do is get to know them well enough to understand what their INTERNAL motivations are. Then, you can FAN those flames...INSPIRE them to act on those internal motivations.

But the raw TRUTH is, most sales managers MISS this "relationship" nuance. They actually believe that they can "MUSCLE" the numbers-through sales contests or, worse...empty or vague threats. (Intimidation) Or...they believe that they can PICK the 'right' people for their little team and then just 'run off' the people they don't like...and that's never worked. Or, they're convinced they can devise a strategy and then SHOVE it down the throats of their team without getting critical BUY-IN first.

They simply FAIL to understand that long-term success in commission sales leadership greatly DEPENDS on the CONNECTION + INVESTMENT that the leader makes...or DOESN'T make. Of course there has to be a great strategy in place for the team, but strategy and other 'mechanical' or scientific factors ALONE won't carry the day.

Just my 2 cents...but what the heck do I know?

06/11/2024

Tom Healy and I discussed the "Metric RESULT" philosophy this morning (live) for a couple of hundred sales Pros who are on our The CAP Equation platform.
Here's a quick discussion that I and the great Jack Canfield (Pres. Jack Canfield Companies) had about this VITAL B2B sales ATTITUDE.

Take a quick Look!

https://youtu.be/EtRRzG2ntLc?si=NMDLGDsiOj03MXAc

Jack Canfield, author of the Chicken Soup book series, interviews Joe Buzzello about his upcoming book and training programs.

06/10/2024

The FUTURE:
A solid strategy prepares a sales team for the FUTURE—it’s forward-looking and helps them focus on NORTH STAR objectives—in addition to DAILY activities.

DIFFERENTIATION:
A good strategy helps DIFFERENTIATE your organization from all others. It forces you to focus on your UNIQUE assets and then EXPLOIT those elements. Without DISTINCTION from competitors, there’s no obvious reason for clients to choose your organization over others.

STABILITY:
A good strategy provides a sales team with some PERMANANCY. An organization in FLUX or constant reorientation will DRIFT and not realize its full potential. Strategy isn’t a straitjacket, but sales teams do need solid GUIDANCE, especially in turbulent times, and that’s what strategy provides.

COMMON Language:
Strategy serves as a SHARED frame of reference. When circumstances change, strategy offers a mutual point of REFERENCE. When market changes occur, the team can collectively determine what assumptions, ideas or plans they’re going to DEVIATE from

ALIGNMENT:
A good sales strategies supports internal and external ALIGNMENT. It provides an INTEGRATIVE overview of the most important organizational goals + factors.

ACTIVITY: (+ Actions)
Finally, strategy guides (and creates) organizational ACTION. Strategy isn't made for the SAKE of strategy. It’s meant to give DIRECTION to the things that a sales team needs to EXECUTE on. Without this track, organizations will simply engage in fragmented and COUNTERPRODUCTIVE actions.

06/08/2024

You've LOST many promising new salespeople over these faulty perceptions.
And that doesn't have to happen.
We teach the "Metric Result Philosophy."
Let me explain...

-REJECTION
It doesn't logically EXIST because the vast majority of outreach isn't to close friends...there isn't any 'personal rejection' going on. Especially if the salesperson NEVER had an opportunity to make a full presentation. In most cases, when a prospect doesn't respond or agree to meet, they don't even know why.

-FAILURE
Failure is a rather FINAL thing. Failure can only (logically) occur in sales when the salesperson QUITS and walks away. If a salesperson is still in the game--working, they have NOT failed.

So...the METRIC RESULT PHILOSOPHY...

Rejection + failure are flawed, negative LABELS that don't exist. Each and every OUTCOME (good bad or indifferent), is simply a piece of data--a METRIC RESULT.--part of a larger data cluster that can then be analyzed unemotionally for trend lines that point to weakness in process or tactics. Then those weaknesses can be corrected or mitigated.

So, when a salesperson is lost because of too much "rejection" or "failure," the problem isn't the confused salesperson...the problem is their leader. 😎

hashtag hashtag hashtag hashtag

06/07/2024

Over 50% of the commission-based salespeople that turn over inside of 180-days...have simply NEVER been COACHED well...or at all.
Most sales managers don't KNOW HOW to coach properly, or they fail to even TRY. (Lazy or scared) And many other sales managers make coaching convoluted, messy, inconvenient or inconsistent.

Great sales coaching is simple...
(S.P.U.R.)
-Specific: About a few FOCUSED issues that are holding them down
-Prescriptive: You LEANING In and helping them FIX things
-Urgent: You (and they) establish a SHORT TIMELINE for repairs
-Recurring: ONGOING...the coaching never stops until they stop working

06/05/2024

As a leader...

-You must have a BIG VISION
But a big vision alone isn't enough. You must also ARTICULATE that vision clearly and then speak about it OFTEN! (Re-recruit them to it)

-You should OUT-WORK everyone on your team
If you show up early and stay late, you negate all of their EXCUSES for non performance!

-Have an OPEN DOOR policy
Get rid of all of the "hierarchal" BS! If someone wants to talk with you, meet with them. Hear them out. Also...open your HOME to them. (Within reason)

-Never LIE to anyone
Even if it's painful...even if it has a consequence...never be less than honest about anything. This is how TRUST is built.

-Let people GO
I don't mean "fire" them or run them off...I mean the opposite. You should PROMOTE their careers even if the promotion is above or past your level. This is how you build a LEGACY team.

It was an honor to have been invited to be part of Ashley Minor's amazing team Summit and see a lot of old faces...and many new ones. Thanks for having me in, Ashley and Jay!

06/03/2024

Building a great sales performance CULTURE isn't complicated. 😎
Here's one way to look at it in a simple and logical manner.

05/27/2024

This infographic speaks to the ESSENCE of what leadership should look like with regard to a commission-based (1099) sales team...or any sales team for that matter.
In recent times, I've seen far too many people bail-out, and walk away from otherwise great companies and opportunities because their manager was leading by TITLE (the one on their business card), rather than DELIVERING actual VALUE to, and developing real INFLUENCE with those on their team.
If you care about becoming a great and successful sales leader, make sure that you are on the RIGHT SIDE of this comparison.

05/25/2024

It’s not easy.
And it’s become tougher in recent years.
Especially if you’re hiring to a commission-based position.
They perceive they’re taking a RISK on you.
And they are.

Your company’s BRAND is a big issue to them.
The quality of the PRODUCT is critical to them.
TRUST in the current LEADERSHIP is an important issue to them.
The way they’ll receive TRAINING is on their mind.
The opportunity for ADVANCEMENT matters to them.
Making a great deal of MONEY is obviously top of mind to them.

You can throw any of these things at them during a recruiting interview, and they’re all important and should be discussed.

But the TRUTH is, if you’re trying to recruit TOP TALENT, none of these things will ring the bell SINGULARLY. Salespeople with experience or high potential are looking for something MORE.

Something HOLISTIC and more powerful in nature.

They're seeking a BETTER LIFE.

Top talent wants to check all of the usual boxes, but they also want to know that they are joining an organization that has a great, learning and caring CULTURE—one that enables them to GROW in a safe, fair and POSITIVE environment.

To ATTRACT better salespeople, you must convince them that their life will be better and HAPPIER as a result of becoming part of your world.

And, oh…you must actually DELIVER that awesome culture you are selling.

It can’t be a bunch of ‘BS.’

You actually have to build that environment and LIVE IT.

YOU, as a leader, have to do that work first.

And when you do, you’ll experience a massive (10x) ROI!

05/25/2024

https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7200128979863764992/

05/23/2024

Great (and GRITTY) stuff from my good friend, Chuck Farmer CECI!

A show where we not only MOTIVATE and INSPIRE, we give you TACTICAL STRATEGIES to implement on your way to GREATNESS!!!

05/23/2024

I speak often about salespeople becoming COMPETENT.
But that's NOT enough anymore.
Obviously, we want our salespeople to have great sales skills that work in any economy: prospecting, qualifying, discovery, positioning solutions, closing, etc.
But the reality is, all the competency in the world simply won’t work until you’ve honed another particular "superpower.” A huge percentage of sales success (and the success of your team members) comes down to ATTITUDE.

The good news is that attitude is like a MUSCLE.
With the right training, you can strengthen it, and see the rewards!

A great attitude comprises several key components:

-GRIT: I know this sounds obvious, but only those salespeople with an ongoing desire for continued success will achieve it. Those who are COMFORTABLE with the status quo simply won’t persevere, especially through tougher times.

-COMMITMENT: ...to do whatever it takes. Those salespeople who are willing to go outside their COMFORT zones and do everything necessary—cold calling, in-person meetings, hiring the phone, presentations, whatever—are going to sell more than those who aren’t.

-PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY: Salespeople who take responsibility for their growth, calendar, efforts and activities are far more likely to be successful in sales. They don't wallow in excuses.

-CONFIDENCE: Confidence will carry salespeople through those tough conversations to the close. By the way...competence breeds CONFIDENCE.

-BELIEF: They must believe in themselves, the product, and the process. Self-limiting beliefs (“I can’t do this,” “This process will never work,” “Why would someone buy from me?”) will sabotage success 100% of the time.

-EMOTIONAL IQ: Salespeople who stay the course--stick to their process, no matter how the conversation is going, are more likely to CLOSE at a higher level.

Check your attitude(s) and also check your TEAM's attitude!

05/15/2024

Sometimes you have to SLOW DOWN to move FAST.
What I mean by this is that GREAT sales leaders create the SPACE each week to think about where they are AT, and where their team is AT.
They ASSESS whether their strategy + ex*****on plans are actually working.
They are willing to PAUSE and make the time to ensure they aren't running a little bit (or wildly) off track.
It takes discipline and MATURITY to stop and DO this work each week.
Great sales leaders ALL do this.
Then they make small (or larger) CORRECTIONS.
Sub-par sales leaders don't do this.
They just put their head in the sand and keep throwing crap at the wall.
Are you SLOWING DOWN for a few minutes each week to look at things?

05/07/2024

The FIRST 90 DAYS are critical.
New commission-based salespeople have a definite RUNWAY in their head.
It's based on their financial + time resources and needs.
They don't have months and months and months to fiddle-screw around.
They need to figure things out quickly, and start their income flow.
If you're their LEADER, you better have a solid 90-day ONBOARDING plan.
They're watching, hoping, praying that you do!

In turn, if you DO have a great onboarding system, then it shouldn't take you a year to know what you have in THEM. Inside of 90-days you should ascertain whether they're able to replicate your proven sales process...or NOT. You should be able to make decisions on their path and coaching needs within just a few months. You can coach them UP or OUT quickly...not wasting anybody's time.

So, a great 90-DAY onboarding system is critical for the objectives of BOTH parties.