11/28/2025
These messages between Steve Meyers and I were sent shortly before the Feast of Trumpets this year.
Happy Sabbath Mr Meyers,
I hope God’s Sabbath is going well for you. I wanted to reach with a quick message. Some men are saying the Worldwide Church of God is gone, destroyed, and even annihilated. I disagree. What belongs to God, belongs to God. Holy is Holy. Profane is profane. There is no way we should call that which is Holy, evil and profane! Right? God says in His Word, “woe unto those who call evil good, and good evil.” So when God creates something, or does something, then we must not call it evil or profane. The Worldwide Church of God was raised up and established through the authority of Jesus Christ in Mr Herbert W Armstrong, the servant of God. It was not raised up by the arm of flesh. To say it was, would be blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Mr Armstrong preached the gospel of the Kingdom through radio and then television, having doors opened up to him around the world. Those added to the body of Christ, the membership of the worldwide collective of the Church of God, came together with the apostle, and became recognized as the Worldwide Church of God. It was through the fulfillment of Matthew 24:14 this occurred. With the authority of Jesus Christ, Mr Armstrong trained and appointed the ministry. That was not a thing to flesh. So the Church of God in the Philadelphia era, became organized spiritually through the apostle. And becoming organized, they needed organization! But it was a spiritual entity, that rested on the servant of God, and those he appointed. The corporation did not dictate the scope and boundaries of the Church. It does not have authority to change the spiritual body of Christ! It merely is a tool for the Church, to handle monies, properties, and real estate for the benefit of the Church. So the WCG INC, was NOT THE CHURCH. But the Church of God was ORGANIZED spiritually as the Worldwide Church of God. This is about recognizing the authority of Jesus Christ, and the apostle and who he appointed to the ministry. That which belongs to God belongs to God. My family was a small bubble of members of the Worldwide Church of God. And I am a baptized member of the Worldwide Church of God. Is it wrong to hold fast to the authority of Jesus Christ who led Mr Armstrong? To stand firm in the organizing of the Body of Christ? It does seem the ministry has vacated the organized pattern of the Worldwide Church of God, in preference of being organized into a new church. Victor Kubik wrote in his “genesis” articles, That in 1993 he and Joe Tkach Jr, who was appointed to their positions in Church Administration, by Joe Tkach Sr, a “regional structure of pastors” was established. Mr Armstrong had previously abolished two types of similar structures, because it ended up being used by Satan to develop a power bloc among the ministry, and it was dividing the church! Mr Kubik admits this in his articles. In 1995, that same “regional pastor structure” was contacted and brought to Indianapolis for a meeting, and Mr Kubik states they formed the leadership core of the United Church of God. The apostle, acted and was moved by the Holy Spirit, binding on earth what Christ had bound in heaven. Can you explain how the actions of Joe Jr, and Victor Kubik in 1993, was NOT AN ACT OF DISOBEDIENCE? It was a total disregard of the instructions of Jesus Christ through His apostle. And it did create Power block of ministers. What would have happened if this wasn’t created and there was no regional pastor structure? It created a reason to disorganize away from the Worldwide Church of God. To organize, under a pseudo authority that was erected through disobeying the apostle of Jesus Christ Mr Kubik, states the UCG was created with everyone agreeing to never allow a concentration of authority and power to one man again. In 1993, there was only one man who didn’t sign his council powers to Joe Sr. That was Aaron Dean. The Advisory Council of Elders was created to take full control of the work, its assets, and its activities inside the Worldwide Church of God. The every man signed on that council away that delegated authority to Joe Sr. In 1991. But Aaron Dean. He is the last appointed man on the alAdvisory Council of Elders, and Mr Armstrong gave him authority. With the way events unfolded and as time progressed, the authority concentrated in 1993 to one single man, Mr Aaron Dean. So by 1995, he was the only one left who was duly appointed, who could reassemble the Advisory Council of Elders, and reorganize the Worldwide Church of God and the work. So if the leadership of the United Church of God became appointed through apostasy, sin, disobedience, they acted to appoint their ministry of their new organization. They didn’t continue their appointment through the apostle, but they continued through the appointment of Joe Sr. Who sinned and appointed them to disobey the Lord. Am I wrong to say this? Christ says the Church shall have NO DIVISION. Yet it was acceptable to disobey, and form a new group? That which is holy is holy. That which is profane is profane. What belongs to God belongs to God. It’s sounding like the problem that arose between Jereboam and Reheboam. Between Sadducees and Pharisees. Between the house of Saul and the house of David. Disobedience is not the same as obedience. I’m just concerned about who was faithful in their appointment, and who was not. I am remembering 1 Samuel 12. There is the solution. Since -986, men have been seeking a successor. So God gave the. Tkach sr! And from him, was appointments. But what about the man appointed by the apostle? He can restore the Worldwide Church of God. Us members are just waiting by patiently, and even standing up in Jerusalem as a witness. I’ll be in Jerusalem September through October. Ezra and Nehemiah should be studied more. The Philadelphia candlestick is not destroyed, just delayed. It has been forty years in the wilderness. Now we are coming back to reassemble as the group meant for the World Tomorrow. What are your thoughts? 1 Samuel 12 is my feelings towards the getting things back on track. Sin can be forgiven. Mistakes can be covered and forgiven. I think God is just testing the attitudes of everyone, whether they believe the false reports or the true reports. Have a wonderful Sabbath. Looking forward to hear from you.
Samuel Kitchen
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Steve Meyers Responds:
Hi Samuel,
Thank you for sharing your heartfelt thoughts. I understand your concern about the continuity of the Worldwide Church of God and the importance of recognizing what God has established. I agree that what belongs to God is holy and cannot be profaned.
As Mr. Armstrong taught, we are not baptized into any sect or denomination, but into the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - he said the Church is a spiritual organism. In that light, I believe the United Church of God (UCG) represents a faithful continuation of the work God began through Mr. Armstrong. While some organizational changes have occurred, UCG maintains the spiritual foundation, teaching, and authority established through Jesus Christ and also considering the concentration of power that could lead to division. The efforts to preserve the ministry, the preaching of the gospel of the Kingdom to the world, making disciples and taking care of those disciples all show a commitment to uphold what is truly God’s.
It’s natural to see differences in organizational decisions, but the key is faithfulness to God’s Word and submitting to Jesus Christ as He guides His Church. As we wait and work faithfully, I believe God continues to lead and protect His Church. Your reminder of Scripture and history is a valuable perspective for all of us striving to remain steadfast.
All the best,
Steve
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Hello Mr Meyers,
It’s 1am here in Tiberias, on the Sea of Galilee, as I write…
I am here with some brethren who have remained members of the Worldwide Church of God, holding fast to what Christ has given to His Church, and we are keeping the Fall Holy Days here in Israel.
The beasts of the field, or wolves came among the Church and the Church scattered. Like a flock of sheep when hit with an attack of wolves or coyotes.
Now when lambs and sheep run away, Christ our Good Shepherd draws His attention to that sheep or ewe, or lamb, and works to restore it to the flock.
Sometimes the sheep congregate with each other, until the Shepherd brings them together to restoration.
It wasn’t anything deliberate on the part of the sheep being forced into a scattered position. The blame lays on the wolves and beasts of the field.
So we see Jesus Christ focusing on preserving the flock and bringing them together in restoration.
The source of power the wolves have, is from Satan the Devil.
The source of power we have, as members of the Body of Christ, is from God and Christ! It is the Holy Spirit.
Now what about those who haven’t scattered? But remained? Christ left them to go after the ones who were scattered, knowing they are safe. He’s going after the ones in danger, to bring them into restoration.
So he’s working WITH the scattered, and working AMONG the remaining of the Worldwide Church of God. As the scattered responds to the shepherd, and start on the path of restoration, they look more and more like those who remained. The Worldwide Church of God.
We see a picture like we see in Revelation 3:14-21. Christ is outside working WITH those who have been called of God, sanctified as children even, to REPENT and to be restored as the Church of God IN PHILADELPHIA called the Worldwide Church of God.
And what I mean is, not a sect not a denomination, but the way it was organized through the apostle of our Lord Mr Herbert W Armstrong.
The power of the wolves that ravished the Worldwide Church of God, had concentration through appointment of the apostle. Mr Tkach left Christ and the Church, and so allow me to say that concentration of power, was contrary to the directives of the apostle.
In 1993, a regional structure was established by said concentration of power, between Church Administration and the field ministry.
This, concentrated power to this regional structure, and gave reason to disorganize away from the Worldwide Church of God, and organize as something new in response to the wolves and beast doing what they do best.
This all came about through appointment, which should have some of our respect considering the time it was INSIDE the Worldwide Church of God. But once it helped the Church become divided(albeit United against heresy), it became an issue like Uzzah touching the ark! Am I wrong with that comparison?
Something wrong had happened! Trying to do something to steady what belonged to God, when not authorized by God, brought some consequences.
God isn’t a respecter of persons.
So we have a portion of the Worldwide Church of God, gathering together separately because of what the wolves did. Now Christ is working WITH them, and those who respond to His voice, to restore them back. He even examines their works, and they have works, and goes into discussion with them about zeal, and about how He governs His Church.
Before the Tribulation we are still in the Philadelphia era.
Laodicean people are allowed to do Laodicean works, and Christ calls for repentance to their restoration, so they won’t end up being “the remnant” that doesn’t receive protection!(Rev. 12:17)
Christ says there should be NO DIVISION among the Church of God.
No portion should remained scattered into a divided portion!
Take some dough. Divide it up into biscuits. It’s no longer part of the whole lump! Unless restored and fitly jointed together. Sometimes divided portions are in larger sizes. Sometimes smaller sizes. But the fact remains, to restore it to one cluster of dough, you have to come away from being a divided portion.
1 Samuel 12 reflects on that, and offers solution.
So with the concentration of power, which comes from demons and Satan, we the Church of God have no such power over us! God is greater!
So when a concentration of power comes from God, we ought to not confuse it with a concentration of power from Satan and respect it and honor it and assist and aid it.
Like Pillars.
Power of God is concentrated. God alone is God. But to he wants us to be with Him as part of His family. Concentrated, together, unified.
Now when Christ finds portions of His flock concentrated in the field, huddling together against the wolves but not against Him, He looks upon such work favorably. But He is in the work of restoration and good health, and being divided away, is going to bring dangerous things upon us and bring us to bad health and death.
This is not a condemnation of working while divided away, and doing good things and responding well with Jesus Christ. This is simply a reminder and warning, that if remained in such a configuration, danger approaches and Christ desires to protect those of His Flock.
We can’t have an attitude towards government, even a concentration of government, and must recognize what power and what authority, that comes from God. Separate the Holy from the profane, and choose to please God and perform well as a good servant of Jesus Christ.
It was nice messaging you Mr Meyers. For everything in Christ, remain true and faithful. Keep doing well and don’t neglect Christ’s work of restoration. It’s not about sects and denominations. It’s about how Christ wants His Church to be.
In Christ’s service,
Samuel W Kitchen
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Hi Samuel,
Thanks for sharing your reflections from Tiberias. We kept the Feast in Israel when the war with Hamas began, so I can appreciate the setting you describe.
Your analogy of the scattered sheep and Christ as the Good Shepherd is powerful. Scripture shows that Christ works with both those who remain faithful and those who have been scattered, drawing them back into the one Body He is leading today (John 10:11, 14–16).
No doubt, the Church is a spiritual organism, not a corporation or human structure (1 Corinthians 12:27). It is not preserved by holding to an old organization but by submitting to Christ’s ongoing work through His Spirit (John 15:4–5). Our calling is to respond faithfully, remain obedient to His guidance, and be part of the Body He is actively working through now.
True unity and restoration come only as we follow where Christ is leading His Church today, not by staying in what has passed (Ephesians 4:3–6).
May God continue to guide you as you keep His Feast in the land where it all began.
In Christ,
Steve
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Hello Mr Meyers,
Mr Armstrong wrote: “In the organizational pattern of God's Church an ADVISORY COUNCIL OF ELDERS has been formed. It is not a legal board of directors.
Actually the Worldwide Church of God is a spiritual organism, created by GOD — not a legal corporate organization created by this world's laws.
But, in order to function IN the world in an organizational manner, the Church of God has needed to be incorporated according to state laws.”
How is the Church of God spiritually organized? (1 Corinthians 1218)
This organizing of the spiritual body of Christ, is what occurred through the authority of Jesus Christ there in Mr Armstrong.
The Government of God organized the Church, spiritually, as the Worldwide Church of God.
Mr Armstrong gave that statement. I have no reason to disbelieve it, because the Bible is soundly behind him on it.
But this thing of saying “The Worldwide Church of God” is the spiritual organism, seems to be a chicken bone caught in the throat of some. Why is that looked on contemptuously?
Why should there be any resistance towards accepting that?
Jesus Christ, commands those of us INSIDE THE CHURCH, to hold fast to what we have received. If God organizes, respect God. If God is our father, where is His respect?
When my dad said to stay put, I listened because I respected and loved Him. I trusted Him.
So that’s what I mean concerning those who have “remained” spiritually organized as the Worldwide Church of God. It is not old, but constantly NEW. They are not holding fast to a human organization, or the commandments of men, but to the Word of God.
And by keeping His Word, they are preserved (Rev. 3:10).
You said they won’t be preserved by holding fast, by standing firm, by staying the course, by enduring until the end.
I hope the quote from Mr Armstrong can help clear things up for you. He came in the name of the Lord, blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. Blessed for righteousness, not wickedness.
Where in the Word of God does it say the Philadelphia era has passed? There is only one candlestick.
In Christian love,
Samuel W
Kitchen
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Steve Meyers then contacted Aaron Dean, who then responded.
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Hi Samuel,
Your message was passed on to me. I appreciate your zeal, although I believe it is misplaced in that the church is the spiritual body of Christ, not a corporation, be it WCG or UCG, or any of the splinters. God will make it known what he wants done, by whom and how. We are close to the end, and our concern should be as Christ directs, and has HWA stated to me, to make the bride ready. We do that through the truth of the bible, and not government structure.
As to the governance of the church; yes, the ACE was not the legal board. There was however a legal board of 5 men. Most didn't know about this because if wasn't used except for technical physical documentation. I would not make much out of the ACE or COE beyond what they were designed for. ACE was to choose a successor, but God did over ride that by having Mr. Armstrong name a successor to keep some others from trying to take over. God did it to test all of the members of the church to know who was following his son, and who was following a man.
As for UCG, the COE is basically the board of directors, but they cannot change doctrine or run off with the church. It is merely a function to facilitate proper use of manpower and funds in a physical world. The COE will not choose the two witnesses or any spiritual positions God needs to fils, and will appoint is his time.
The head of the church, Jesus the Christ, will make things clear at the right time. We cannot, and should not force it. Only God knows where we all fit in his plan. Any of us would do a disservice to ourselves and his church to decide things that are in his realm.
I have written you before, and you know I will do what God asks of me, if indeed he has more for me to do. It will be 40 years in January since Mr. Armstrong died. I hope we can have a sense of urgency as I do believe time is short. Even so, we cannot force it. Even Jesus said it was the timing of the father. He couldn't even name who would be on his left or right.
I appreciate your zeal and desire to do what is right, but sometimes it seems misplaced. Be careful in making anything man sets up, even though God allows and used it at some point, to make us not see, or perhaps reject something he may have planned. As Paul said, We see through a glass darkly. He will make it clear when the time is right. We must subject our opinions to the truths of the bible, and then we can watch it all happen as he fulfills the prophecies. Have a great fall festival season.
Respectfully, In God's service.
Aaron Dean
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Hello Mr Dean,
Are you telling me the Worldwide Church of God IS NOT the spiritual organism Mr Armstrong is saying it is?
I believe Mr Armstrong. You’re just confused about it. You don’t believe Mr Armstrong. The statement is our hinge point.
How does Christ govern the Church? He is the HEAD of the body, so He obviously governs it. How?
Through a government structure, geared and wired to do what the Head directs them to do! The ordained ministry is that structure.
But if anyone take a step AWAY from the head, and SEVER complete connection, they act disorderly, off the track, and not in complete harmony with Jesus Christ! And Jesus Christ moves to restore harmony and full connection! So He calls for repentance!
Repent from disbelief, from not fully trusting Him and God!
In 1993, the office of Joseph Tkach Jr and Victor Kubik, introduced and got established a “regional pastor structure”.
This was after knowing the direction given through the apostle and disregarding it! (See Pastor Generals Report, August 06,1979)
Two times prior, were similar structures established, and two times they were picked up by Satan the Devil to separate the ministry away from Christ!!!!
This was a change in organization INSIDE THE CHURCH that set forth division. What ended up being the result? The same result that came from the previous attempts. The ministry being at odds with Jesus Christ.
The fruits are born.
Without this “unholy” structure being set up in 1993,(after the other members of A.C.E signed away their delegation to Mr Tkach Sr) what would the ministry have done?
Rebellion is as witchcraft.(1 Samuel 15:23)
Why was the idea of the regional pastor administrative structure introduced? Let alone accepted! If they respected the anointed of the Lord, the apostle of Jesus Christ, faithfulness would have won out!
But a step away was embraced and “worked out” and established!
Nobody is ever right when they go contrary to God and when they turn away from clear instructions given to them by the servant of God!
You want obedience and adherence from your congregations! And rightfully so, but you disregard the same obedience and adherence placed on you by Jesus Christ concerning the apostle.
If rebellion can be justified by the man of God dying, then a lot of rebels wouldn’t have to repent.
Jesus came in the flesh, and died….but was resurrected and is now alive on His Father’s Throne!
Dying didn’t justify any rebellion and disobedience!!!
When Mr Armstrong died, that did not open things up where disobedience is okay! Rebellion didn’t all of a sudden jump up and become righteousness and obedience! That “TRANS” movement, is wickedness and an abomination unto God!
Joseph Tkach boasted of “transformation”. Holy is Holy and profane is profane! The Devil loves calling what is profane and vile righteous and good!
(Isaiah 5:20-25)
“Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!
“Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
“Woe unto them that are mighty to drink wine, and men of strength to mingle strong drink:
“Which justify the wicked for reward, and take away the righteousness of the righteous from him!
“Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the Lord of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
“Therefore is the anger of the Lord kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them…”
The Government of God has rule over me. It governs the Church of God. I respect the apostle whom the Lord chose, whom the Lord Jesus Christ sent forth with His Words! He has authority above me!
That’s instruction from the Word of God!
Far too much to place here, but you ought to know.
And the minister who is faithful has authority with him, and I give them respect and obedience! It’s like the body respecting the ligaments, when the Head, Christ, directs, the faithful ministry pulls, and I move accordingly!
But those who are separated, cannot fulfill their ministry! They are OUTSIDE OF THE CHURCH heading into the lake of fire!
And it does not matter how much they pull goodness from the tree of knowledge of good and evil thinking they don’t have to adhere to what was instructed to them, because the man is dead!
You are sending the message to those weaker in the faith, that they don’t have to adhere to your position as a minister, nor show you any respect, because government structure doesn’t matter on them being made ready to meet Christ?
What I’m saying is for your sake, to preserve your ministry in Christ! To edify it! And also to strengthen you and the entire church, through obedience not rebellion!
Because one step away is too much! It places you outside of the Body of Christ, further away from protection, the protection that is promised by Jesus Christ for those INSIDE. Noah wasn’t protected while swimming outside in the waters.
This comes back to the two trees. If we surrender to God, and keep His Word, then any act of disobedience should APPALL US!
So in 1993, this thing that happened set things off course!
The roots are rotten! Those who meekly, humbly respond to Christ’s headship, will abhor wickedness, will abhor sin and disobedience, and will be quick to obey the servant of God! Obedience brings no harm, but to ego, vanity and self worth.
The government of God is not something that has “passed” like manure! It’s HOLY UNTO GOD! Or do you not believe that anymore Mr Dean? I hope you do believe it’s Holy, and place value in the truth of God and value into OBEDIENCE to God over disobedience.
I’m not saying what I’m saying out of opinion. You were appointed. I had nothing to do with it. Mr Armstrong was used as an apostle. I had nothing to do with it. It was all Christ and God! So I respect that.
The Worldwide Church of God is simply the Church of God around the world organized spiritually, by the Holy Spirit. It is the spiritual organism, as Mr Armstrong stated.
I am looking at the Word of God, and obeying and believing it!
Concerning the apostles of our Lord and the ministry!
I wouldn’t be here without Christ working in me!
All I’m saying, is Christ is moving to restore the ministry and the Church.
I’m not saying follow men.
I’m not saying follow me.
I’m not saying follow you!
I’m saying follow Jesus Christ and HERE IS THE ONE HE APPOINTED through the Apostle!
And here is sin.
Flee sin. Abhor wickedness. Do not rebel, but be a faithful servant of the Lord.
It is not wickedness to recognize the authority of Jesus Christ and whom He places inside His Body!
Give honor, respect, and obey the servant of the Lord.
Yes, it is odd to have someone like me and others to bring this out about you Mr Dean. I’m not rebelling! I’m edifying! I’m strengthening what needs to be strengthened in the Lord! And I fully trust God and Christ to bring about the will of God!
It takes faith and full belief! And the hand of the Lord is coming…
Will we bend our knees in full obedience? Or will we try to dictate to Jesus Christ, that He doesn’t know what He knows? No where to run.
Something to pray and fast about. God’s hand is upon you.
In Christ’s service,
Samuel W Kitchen
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Samuel,
Jesus Christ is the head of the church. The church is a spiritual organism. He leads it his way, not our way.
You seem to have made it your mission to 'correct the church'. You are picking and choosing what you think Jesus wants.
I will pray you can see yourself. Mr. Armstrong would not agree with many of your points, no matter how many scriptures you quote.
We all want to do what is right in God's eyes. You say what you say with a limited history of the true church and the corporations that it operated under. At one point HWA misheard one of the regional directors and stated "if this corporation is not going to follow God, then I will start another corporation." I would not make such an issue out of any corporate name. The church is indeed a spiritual body.
I do stand up for truth, but for me to take it on my own to do what you wish of me, then I would be usurping something in Jesus' authority. That I will not do. He has always put me where he wants me, and will continue to do so in his way and his time, if indeed he wishes to use me for something else. I would fear to judge the way that you do using scripture as a club at times. That is not what a mature Christian does because we cannot read a person's heart. Don't be blinded by your own thoughts.
I pray that God will show me the truth. I don't decide the truth then ask God to show me how I am right. There is a big difference, and it is very difficult when one has already 'decided' the truth. That was the problem with Job's friends, and God had to correct them.
Have a great feast, Respectfully,
Aaron Dean
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Hello Mr. Dean,
Jesus Christ is indeed the head of the Church. And yes, the Church is a spiritual organism. And yes, He leads it His way, not our way.
Mr. Dean, I was born five years after Mr Armstrong died. But God sees everything and reveals it, perhaps even to a youth.
My youth may be used against me, but I don’t worry about it.
God will see to it.
The Church of God, is the spiritual body of Jesus Christ, which is NOT DIVIDED.
Those who go outside, are outside. No longer INSIDE the Body of Christ.
Every minister who was ordained through the apostle, was included in the organizational pattern of the Worldwide Church of God. I’m being inclusive to the men who want to return.
Mr Armstrong explains this organizational pattern here- https://www.hwalibrary.com/cgi-bin/get/hwa.cgi?action=getwwnews&InfoID=1437225268
What is wrong with staying faithful to that organizational pattern that Christ set forth on the Spiritual Organism?
My family, and now myself, and others around the world have remained faithful, even though others VACATED and went to organize somewhere else OUTSIDE OF THE BODY.
The steps away from the doctrines and truths that came through the apostle, is sending the membership of the Worldwide Church of God to the lake of fire!!!!
When the apostle instructed, is his instruction hated so much, that disobedience to the servant of God is CELEBRATED?
I’m just obeying, and believing, and striving to live everyday according to how Jesus Christ instructs me, from His Word, and yes through His apostle and faithful ministers.
That structure you have with Christ, being part of His ministry, is sewed strongly with the apostle not away from him.
Even Gerald Waterhouse, said “Any minister who steps out of line of Mr. Armstrong's authority, NO LONGER CARRIES GOD'S AUTHORITY!"
I’m reminding you my brother in Christ, to not depart from the instruction that is for your well being. I’m just reaching out a hand…
I’ve lost family in some hard ways, and I remember my folks dying, and it still shakes me. They bled for this truth and while walking the walk in Christ. I don’t want a brother I see heading into the lake of fire, burn up because I had the knowledge to save him!!
What kind of monster would I be if I loved me MORE and withheld what Christ has shown me and is motivating me by the power of His Holy Spirit to stand up and tell!!
I would have a much easier life. But I’ve had to learn how to live everyday according day by the living faith of Jesus Christ. I would not be alive if Christ did not intervene.
When a member of the body rejoices the entire body rejoices. When a member suffers all members suffer. And since I am responsible for what God has given me, I warn out of love for my spiritual family whom I do love.
I’m obeying the servant of God.
Isaiah 50:10
“Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God.”
So what Mr Armstrong instructed, has great weight with me. He is God’s servant! Should I give up fearing God and disobey His servant?
Why aren’t you quoting scriptures? That’s an odd thing to say, if the Word of God is what we all are here to adhere to!
Corporations are benign, neither wrong nor right.
A man of God can create a million corporations to aid him to serve God.
But if it leads him to disobey God and God’s servant, then it will cut him off from God. That’s what I’m warning about.
1 Samuel 12, provides the solution. If we want to obey God.
I’m not asking you to take it up on your own. I respect your attitude concerning that. You don’t seek a higher office. That’s very good. You’re humble and meek and selfless.
But preaching what you was instructed and what was made official through the apostle, is not usurping, but obeying the Lord. I’m just reminding you of what was taught.
The Church records has been preserved enough by Jesus Christ to answer what needs to be answered today. Many years ago, there was far less available to answer questions. It’s like the record is hidden, so people can pretend disobedience is okay! But Christ keeps bringing out more and more of what was taught, through the apostle! There wasn’t very many sermons available 10-15 years ago! But it took people who valued them, to preserve them and share them!
That’s Jesus Christ working through His Body!
Correction is never fun. But Christ is correcting us. Why would I let a brother burn up forever, because I decided to “just do me”?
That’s absurd. If I lose everything, I’d rather lose it for my family. If my family gets to live forever and enter the Kingdom, and I don’t, then I accept that cost! But I know God and His Word won’t allow that, but why wouldn’t that be the cost I’m willing to pay for others? Why wouldn’t I consider myself greater than they?
I apologize if my words and use of scripture comes off as being a club. I had hoped the Holy Spirit in both of us can look past the heavy handed use I may have welded at times. We both love the truth don’t we? Even if I believe I’m right, I’ll still go to God and make sure. Because God is right, and if I am His servant then I’ll only do and say what He says I should do. I am not yet perfect.
I just can’t throw away what instructed. I don’t want to disobey the instructions of God’s servant.
If a minister isn’t there with Mr Armstrong, I wonder what authority that minister has! Because with Mr Armstrong is Jesus Christ. He did some things wrong, but always repented and did things right. Wow Christ in Him did that. So I overlook those things and embrace the work of God, and believe the one sent forth.
The truth has already been sent forth. I don’t have to decide what it is. But I can decide whether I believe it and live by it.
I’m just praying you are stirred back up to believe it, because you were taught it, and you preached it. So why lose it? And with it your reward?
You can have mine if I could give it to you, because you’re in a position to help the entire Church and ministry. I’m only here to preserve the Worldwide Church of God and to proclaim what was taught so my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ can make it into God’s Kingdom.
I am not here for self gain. Someone has to give a damn.
And when I see and experience the lack of agape love, love towards God, because I’ve felt it from a lot of people, then why not be the one who is different. By God it will be done. Christ in me will get it done. I’ll be the dust that carries behind.
I’m praying for you and I’m going to God over this.
God is looking at this, and I’ll look at Christ, you do the same. May God’s will be done, and if I am wrong may God correct me. It’s too important to be wrong on this.
In Christian love,
Samuel W Kitchen
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Correction: My phone did some changing on what I wrote. Didn’t see the typo. I wrote “Why would I consider myself greater than they?” It was changed to “Why wouldn’t I consider myself greater than they?”
Not what I meant at all.
Sam
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Hello Mr Meyers,
Our conversation trailed off, but I wanted to return to a couple of your statements that I find disturbing.
Statements:
#1: “ No doubt, the Church is a spiritual organism, not a corporation or human structure (1 Corinthians 12:27). It is not preserved by holding to an old organization but by submitting to Christ’s ongoing work through His Spirit (John 15:4–5). Our calling is to respond faithfully, remain obedient to His guidance, and be part of the Body He is actively working through now.”
#2: “True unity and restoration come only as we follow where Christ is leading His Church today, not by staying in what has passed (Ephesians 4:3–6).”
You say the Church of God is not preserved by holding to an old organization. An organization pattern that was WITH the apostle Mr Herbert W Armstrong. The servant of God whom you have benefited so much from, because He chose to obey the Lord God of Heaven and believe Jesus Christ His Son.
You introduce the idea of “moving on”, to not hold fast according to the commandment of Jesus Christ. Implying that such is a dead work, is disturbing.
That is NOT the Holy Spirit behind such statements.
Why speak of faithfulness in the same breath of “letting go”, and apostasy? Why speak of obedience, when disobedience I being upheld? Why speak of God’s guidance, when you are telling me to let it go?
The Body of Christ behaves not this way. It is contrary to the doctrine we have learned.
In 2 Timothy 2, Paul addresses similar statements and attitudes. He name drops in verse 17, Hymenaeus and Philetus, who made the statement “the resurrection is past already”.
A very similar statement to what you have said in your last email to me, before you brought Mr Dean to deflect.
Paul explains, in verse 8: “Remember that Jesus of the seed of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel:”
“Wherein I suffer trouble as an evildoer l, even unto bonds, but the word of God is not bound.” (A statement I find relatable now)
“It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: if we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: if we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.”(verses 11-13)
To the apostles, Jesus says in Luke 10:16: “He that hearth you hearth me; and he that despiseth you, despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me.”
“He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.”(Matthew 10:40)
“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.”(John 13:20)
“We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.”(1 John 4:6)
“Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.”(1 John 2:22)
Jesus Christ came in the flesh. Through Mr Herbert W Armstrong, the Holy Spirit worked, and He was given authority from Jesus Christ, and by the name of Christ organization was produced. So when he gives instruction with the authority of Jesus Christ, I believe him and i will hold fast to what Jesus Christ my head instructs! The spirit of Antichrist says to “move on”.
Now back to 2 Timothy 2.
“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, the Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity…”
Hymenaues and Philetus was talking about the apostles and prophets, saying they were “the past”, and was saying we have no part with them because they died, therefore we should move on to those living.
Paul has to establish how the foundation of God is sure! How the Church is founded on the prophets and apostles of God and Christ being the chief cornerstone.
Then he gives us a command.
“If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work.”(verse 21)
Disloyalty is not loyalty. Disobedience is not obedience. Rejection is not acceptance. Disbelief is not belief. To despise is not honor. Hate is not love.
The Word of God is not destroyed. The Holy Spirit binds me to it, because I believe it. Therefore Christ leads me.
Repent of this spirit of Antichrist. Repent of thinking you don’t have to obey because the cats away. Repent from disobedience. And this wrong attitude of contempt you have towards the work of God.
Because the thing you are speaking against, is what Christ accomplished through the Holy Spirit in The True Church. It is not a thing of man.
I will pass this on to Mr Dean. I don’t want anyone to be confused or these words be twisted out of context. The Lord God gives instruction in His Holy Bible! I’ll obey God, and will repent where I am wrong. But please sir, you are wrong and have been found speaking what past dissidents have said. Please take this to God. Repent, and do good.
In Christ’s name,
Samuel W Kitchen
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Dear Samuel,
Thanks for taking the time to write and share your thoughts. I appreciate your sincerity and your desire to be faithful to God’s truth. I would like to carefully respond using the teachings and doctrines based solely on Scripture.
First, you referenced my statement that the Church is a spiritual organism, not a corporation or human structure (1 Corinthians 12:27). Christ is the living Head of the Church, and He tells us plainly: “Abide in Me, and I in you…for without Me you can do nothing” (John 15:4–5). Notice that the command is to abide in Christ — it does not say “abide in Herbert Armstrong” or “abide in the Worldwide Church of God.” Our faith and obedience must be centered on Jesus Christ, not on any one human leader or past organization.
You also raised concern with my statement that true unity and restoration come only as we follow where Christ is leading His Church today, not by staying in what has passed (Ephesians 4:3–6). Scripture is clear: God’s Church is “built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone” (Ephesians 2:20). That foundation is not Herbert Armstrong, nor the Worldwide Church of God.
What is paramount is obedience and faithfulness to God’s Word. Following Christ means discerning where He is actively working today. As Acts 3:19 emphasizes, repentance brings “times of refreshing from the presence of the Lord,” and these “times of refreshing” can be experienced when His Spirit leads a faithful body of believers now, not only through structures of the past.
But this raises important questions: What is that organization doing to preach the gospel to the world? What is it doing to make disciples? What is it doing to care for those disciples? (Matthew 28:19–20). If an organization is not carrying out these central commands of Christ, how can it rightly claim to be God’s Church? The mission Christ gave His Church is active, outward, and ongoing — not simply tied to preserving an institution of the past.
We deeply respect the ways God used Mr. Armstrong to restore truth to many people. At the same time, the Bible shows that God has worked through many servants across time, never binding His work to just one man or one administration. The Church has taken many organizational forms throughout history — from the prophets of long ago, to the apostles in Jerusalem, to congregations scattered across Asia Minor, to faithful groups preserved in the Middle Ages. What mattered in every age was not the human structure, but the Spirit of God and the fruit of faithfully doing His work.
That is why in UCG we focus on continuing the work Christ commanded: preaching the gospel of the Kingdom of God to the world (Matthew 24:14), making disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19–20), and caring for the flock of God (John 21:15–17). Our responsibility is to submit to Christ as Head of the Church and to faithfully engage in the mission He gave His Body.
Samuel, I share these things not to dismiss your concerns, but to point us both back to Scripture and the clear commission of Jesus Christ. The true measure of God’s Church is not loyalty to a past institution but faithfulness to Christ, His Word, and His Work today.
With respect and sincerity,
Steve Myers
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It is almost 1am here in Jerusalem. Your email brought me to tears Mr Mr.Meyers. I immediately prayed asking God to fill my mind with His Word. I am afraid for you.
Mr. Armstrong, the apostle of Jesus Christ, your superior in Christ, already gives a faithful witness and the good report.
Let me respond with these articles.
From “Watering Down or building Solidly Up?”(Worldwide News June 11,1979):
Quote #1: “You've heard, or read, of the story of the intensive almost night-and-day study that led to PROOF of the existence of God and the AUTHORITY of the Bible — God sweeping my mind clean of every other doctrine and belief — revealing to me HIS WORD exactly AS IS — no watering down.
“I know of no other man who was ever brought to GOD'S TRUTH in that manner.
“This led in seven years to the founding of the CHURCH OF GOD at Eugene, Ore., which in due time became the Worldwide Church of God.
“The living Jesus Christ founded the one true Church of God, A.D. 31. The same living Jesus Christ started the Philadelphia era of God's Church through me, as His chosen apostle, August, 1933.”
Quote #2: “Fellow ministers and wives, the LIVING CHRIST raised up this era of His Church through me. HE heads it — leads it! Through me, directly or indirectly, you came into His Church, and into the knowledge He first revealed to me.”
Quote #3: “ Fellow ministers, I say to you by Christ's authority that for one claiming to be a minister of Jesus Christ and receiving a salary as a minister of, and representative of this Church, to water down or make less binding the teachings and doctrines Jesus Christ put in this Church through me is taking money (salary) under false pretenses. It is SERIOUS and a SERIOUS SIN. God will call everyone who does that to account.
“Compare this to a captain in the army. He is in a comparatively low authority, but he is over first and second lieutenants, sergeants, corporals, etc. Suppose an army captain begins to water down or change the military rules. Suppose he tells those under him, "You don't need to obey this or that order — unless you want to." Such a captain would be court-martialed and PUT OUT with DISHONORABLE DISCHARGE!”
Quote #4: “You, dear ministers and wives, did not have to go through what God put me through. I learned TRUTH a doctrine at a time. Through me it was handed to all of you "on a platter" — all together.
“Now if you don't understand and believe that, I wonder what you are doing in Christ's ministry.
“The living CHRIST put HIS TRUTH into God's Church through me.
“You have of your own will been drawn into this Church by the living Christ — to HELP me in proclaiming this GOOD NEWS to the world. IT IS THE MOST IMPORTANT WORK IN THE WORLD — ESPECIALLY AT THIS CRISIS TIME JUST BEFORE THE COMING OF CHRIST TO SET UP THE KINGDOM OF GOD!
“It is far more important than being a captain in the army in time of WAR! If you did not agree with the military regulations and orders and openly proclaimed your dissidence to those under you, you would be court-martialed and probably shot! Yet disagreement and contrary teaching of those under you in GOD'S CHURCH is, in God's eyes, FAR MORE SERIOUS!
“Now I am not, of course, going to order any firing squads. But the LEAST you can do, if you cannot wholeheartedly accept and loyally teach the truths Jesus Christ put into His Church through His chosen apostle, is to resign and LEAVE THE CHURCH!
“God commands in His Word that we all "SPEAK THE SAME THING." That "same thing" He put into His Church through His apostle. If you can't agree on any point, you may bring your disagreement privately to your superior or directly to me — but to teach disagreement to the children of GOD is the height of disloyalty!”
Read the entire article. It is written for you.
From “ How Christ Gives Church Its Doctrines”(Pastor General’s Report, November 08,1978)”:
Quote #1: “I had not realized it before, but I find that somehow there seems to have been a supposition among some — more or less, I do not know to what extent — in the Ministry to assume that Church DOCTRINE is set by the Church.
“This is MOST IMPORTANT — for God commands through the Apostle Paul that in the Church we must ALL SPEAK THE SAME THINGS, that there be no divisions among us.
“It ought to be obvious that for ABSOLUTE DOCTRINAL UNITY, the doctrines, practices, customs should be PUT INTO the Church by Jesus Christ, the living HEAD of the Church.”
Quote #2: “Peter and Paul, and the other original Apostles were also human and subject to mistakes. Yet the Church received ALL its doctrines, teachings, and practices THROUGH THOSE APOSTLES! THERE IS NOT ONE EXAMPLE OF THE CHURCH RECEIVING ITS BELIEFS ANY OTHER WAY!
“Jesus Christ DID NOT APPOINT A DOCTRINAL COMMITTEE of MEN or ministers to manufacture and give the Church doctrine! Jesus Christ taught Peter and the original twelve IN PERSON, the same Christ taught Paul IN PERSON! Christ is the PERSONAL Word of God.”
Quote #3: “In all these successive instances, I have shown you, step by step, that Peter was LEADER of the Apostles — and that the Church received its teachings and doctrines FROM THE APOSTLES!
“But God has always worked primarily through ONE MAN at a time — as Abraham, then Isaac, then Jacob, then Joseph — later Moses, then Joshua, later Samuel, then David — and, in the New Testament Church, PETER. But Peter was an Apostle — one sent forth proclaiming the Message — not a resident pope over a political hierarchy.”
Quote #4: “There has been much discussion at Pasadena between certain ministers of lower than Apostle rank, as to the CHURCH binding and loosing.
“So now let it be MADE OFFICIAL — by Christ's present-day Apostle — that this binding and loosing PLAINLY, CLEARLY, was given to Christ's chief APOSTLE — not to lower-rank ministers ordained by his authority — not by the CHURCH as a body — but by the APOSTLE!”
Quote #5: “JESUS CHRIST is the living HEAD of this Church! HE built it through His Apostle. And He, CHRIST, still rules SUPREME in the one and only area on earth where the GOVERNMENT OF GOD is being administered today!”
This teaching is also repeated numerous times in Church publications, in Ministerial conferences, at the pulpit in sermons and Bible studies, and even in the World Tomorrow program. So much, that I am only refraining to post all of it, because you already showed you do not believe what was taught faithfully by Christ’s very own apostle. You have departed from the way(Malachi 2:8-9). The above quotes should suffice, and the articles will provide the faithful witness, and good report from the Lord through a real God-Fearing servant of the Lord.
“But ye are departed out of the way; ye have caused many to stumble at the law; ye have corrupted the covenant of Levi, saith the Lord of hosts.
“Therefore have I also made you contemptible and base before all the people, according as ye have not kept my ways, but have been partial in the law.”(Malachi 2:8-9)
What does that mean? It means your ministry is null and void, because you reject the Lord thy God, he rejects you.
That’s why I cry over you Mr Meyers. Your ministry is severed from the Head of the Church Jesus Christ! You did it.
“My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.”(Hosea 4:6)
“I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
“Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
“But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
“As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”(Galatians 1:6-9)
You now have a double curse on you by the Living God! For preaching contrary to the doctrine which you have learned, to pervert the gospel.
Mr Armstrong at one conference, in one audio, doubled that in the name of Jesus Christ! Wow unto you sir!
Scripture is clear. And Mr Armstrong faithfully preached God’s Word. And since he is your superior, or was(since you have now no ministry with Jesus Christ), he has given the good report and faithful witness.
This entire interaction, I fear, was God bringing this out for Mr Dean to see. I am passing this along to him. Death is not a light thing. Korah challenged God and his “one man”. So did Ananias and Saphirra.(Acts 5)
You tried to rope Mr Dean into your blasphemy, and heresy, and apostasy. God have mercy on you if He so wills it, because that so despicable. It’s a wrong spirit. Demonic. Antichrist.
I hate to write these things, because I yearn that you return unto God and repent and believe God. But in accordance to God’s Word, I have to.
It’s heartbreaking, and I don’t wish harm. But Christ has spoken. It is bound in heaven. The scripture already reveals it.
In Jesus Christ’s name,
Samuel W Kitchen
